AP / HONORS Questions Responses by the Counseling Department Descriptions of all courses offered at San Marino High School and the prerequisites, can be found in the course description guide found on the school website. The course description guide is under the Counseling tab on the website it is called Course Offerings. www.sanmarinohs.org Q - Is there a class list? A - Lists of Honors level and AP classes offered at SMHS are provided to students in their annual counseling meetings. Course offerings and the course description guide are also available on the SMHS website. Q - Why and why not take AP & Honors A - AP and Honors classes have a weighted GPA and demonstrate rigor in a student s high school coursework. They are also valuable because the classes allow students to learn more about a subject in which they have a deep interest high aptitude for. They should not be taken solely for the sake of raising the GPA, especially if a student has low interest or has not shown strength in the prerequisite courses. Q - Are students encouraged to take AP classes only in the subjects that interest them? A - Students are highly encouraged to take AP classes in subjects in which they have strong interest and have achieved well in the prerequisite courses. Students are not discouraged from taking other AP classes if they have done well in those prerequisites and have demonstrated that they can handle the rigor of the classes without adding or overloading extra stress in their lives and daily routines. Q - Why does SMHS require World History(?) to be completed first before students can sign up for other AP classes? If it is a required prerequisite, then why are there not enough spots available for World History during the summer? What is a child supposed to do if they are unfortunately not able to get a spot in the World History summer class? Doe they have to wait a whole year then to take the other AP classes? A - World History is a graduation requirement course that is standardized to be taken before the end of the 10th grade year. All students have the opportunity to either take the class in 9th grade, the summer going into 10th grade, or during 10th grade. The class is not a prerequisite to take other AP courses and does not prevent students from applying to AP courses.
Q - We would like to see a variety of course offerings that touch ALL students (Art History, Human Geography). A - We offer multiple courses in all the subject areas that are needed to satisfy both the SMHS graduation requirements as well as the college eligibility requirements for the UC and CSU systems as well as for other state and private universities and colleges, including selective ones. In addition to courses students can take on campus, they have the option of taking online courses in either/both AP Psychology or AP European History. To note, there are several Honors level and AP college prep electives offered at SMHS that cover material outside of the core subjects, including Honors Humanities, AP Music Theory, and AP Art. These courses each have prerequisites students must meet to find success. Students receive a complete list of course offerings in their annual counseling meetings, and the lists are available on the Counseling link at www.sanmarinohs.org. Any successfully motivated student who has a balanced schedule and who is interested in a subject area for which we do not offer a course is encouraged to speak with their counselor about options available online or at community colleges. Courses not offered at SMHS will not be added to a student s transcript, but may be reported on a college application. For more specific information regarding this question, please contact your student s counselor. Q - What is the difference between AP and Honors? A - AP courses follow an AP curriculum designed by the College Board, which culminates in an end of year standardized examination (in May) which may or may not allow the student to receive college credit based on an individual college s policy. While Honors courses provide a similar level of academic rigor, their curriculum is determined by the teacher/department to supplement and enrich the standard course requirements, and no direct college credit can be received for successful completion of the course. There is no standardized test for Honors courses. An Honors course can lead to preparation for success in a future AP course. Both AP and Honors courses at SMHS provide an extra point towards the student s weighted GPA. Q - What are the other options for getting AP courses? A - Students have the option to take online courses in either AP Psychology or AP European History. Once the official grade is provided to us, it is included on the SMHS transcript, thus affecting the student s GPA. Interested students should speak with their counselor. Also, SMHS accepts a grade in AP Chinese from the Chinese School of San Marino. If students choose to take AP courses outside of what is offered through SMHS,
they will not be included on the student s high school transcript. Colleges prefer to see advanced coursework completed at the high school. Q - What are the qualifications for AP? A - Qualifications for Honors Level and AP courses vary by department. This information is provided on the SMHS website via the course description guide. Q - Is it better to get a B in an Honors/AP course or an A in the regular course? A - There is no right or wrong answer to this question. As in many cases, it depends on each individual student s situation and course history. But in general, a B in Honors/AP shows rigor on the transcript and is typically considered stronger than an A in the regular level course. Q - I am in favor of open access to AP and Honors courses because I have seen the research on its success in other local schools, NOT because I think kids should overload, but so that the B students can have a chance to take a course in an area of strong interest. My other concern is making sure that SMHS is helping support its students get admitted into the UC system. I think we have a good selection of Honors and AP for most out of state schools and for private liberal arts colleges, but it appears we don't have enough Designated UC Honors courses to help with specifically UC admittance. So, this concerns me, in part because of the cost of college. The UC's are far more affordable than out of state and private colleges, so we should be doing all we can to give our kids the best shot at UC admittance. A - Every year, numerous graduating Titans are admitted and matriculate to all of the various UC campuses, including those which are the most selective. San Marino High School has a very high acceptance rate to all UC schools. As such, the current 18 designated UC Honors courses we offer yield excellent results for UC admittance. These courses provide strong academic foundations for later success at any UC campus and beyond. College admissions offices evaluate SMHS students based on the context of what courses are offered to students at our school, as provided them on the SMHS School Profile. Q- What are the expectations from the students? A - Students taking AP courses are expected to have strong critical thinking, time management, and organizational skills. AP courses are considered college level curriculum. Students can expect to spend more time on homework than they would in
regular classes. They will need to be self-motivated, self-disciplined, and have a strong work ethic. Q - How many AP Courses should my kids take before graduation? A - There is no required number of AP classes required for graduation or college admission. Each student should strive to take the most rigorous schedule of classes in which they can succeed, based on their unique strengths and extracurricular commitments. Q - My son is in AP biology this year. But since he is also in Marching Band for the first semester, his schedule does not allow him to take chemistry class. What are the options for AP or Honor science classes in 11th grade? Will there be summer classes he can take so that he can advance to AP/Honors courses during regular school year? A - The list of available Honors level and AP classes offered at SMHS are provided to students in their annual counseling meetings. Course offerings are also available on the SMHS website via the course description guide. A list of summer courses offered at SMHS will be available in March on the San Marino Schools Foundation website. Appropriate choices for summer classes are discussed on an individual basis at the annual counseling meetings. Q - Difference between AP and Honors for College purposes. Also pressure would be less if AP and Honors was open to students who WANT to take the courses,not by application and teacher selection. A - AP courses follow an AP curriculum designed by the College Board, which culminates in an end of year standardized examination (in May) which may or may not allow the student to receive college credit based on an individual college s policy. While Honors courses provide a similar level of academic rigor, the curriculum is determined by the department to supplement and enrich the standard course requirements, and no direct college credit can be received for successful completion of the course. There is no standardized test for Honors courses. An Honors course can lead to preparation for success in a future AP course. Both AP and Honors courses at San Marino High School provide an extra point towards the student s weighted GPA. Q - How important are these to college entry? My son is naturally interested and excellent with computers (has an A in coding and probably a future in this area) and has asked to participate in AP Computer Science. However, will this mean too much homework and pressure? At this time we would not encourage him to
take any other AP Class at all unless he showed academic ability and interest. It is hard to know what is right. A - Although academics are important, college admissions also look for balance. Students should take a balanced load aiming for quality not quantity. The goal is for each student to take the most challenging course that is best for him or her where they can achieve success without being overloaded. It is recommended you have this specific conversation about your child with his/her counselor. Q - How does this affect college entrance. 2. How to minimize level of pressure while maintaining a high level of standard. 3. How to let the teens have a voice and be heard. A - As the admissions to many of the colleges has become more selective, the level of academic pressure students feel has greatly increased. Students who push themselves too hard can suffer serious consequences including burnout, perfectionism, panic attacks/anxiety and depression, and for some, lower grades. The importance of finding a healthy balance between work, extracurricular activities, and play is crucial. Maintaining good sleeping and eating habits, regular exercise and even short 15 minute breaks can be very helpful. SMUSD is well aware of this trend in high performing high schools and is increasing the number of ways to support students and hearing their concerns. Q - What range of courses will be offered? Are there plans for more arts/humanities courses? What policies operate for access? What data do we have from UC system and elsewhere on value of AP courses? A - Courses listings are available on the website and are provided to each student at grade level meetings. We do not have data on the value of AP courses as each course value is intrinsic to the experience of the student taking the course. UC s do still take into account AP testing scores of 4s or 5s (out of a maximum of 5) for credit for some prerequisite type courses, or for placement into higher level classes, but many other colleges are moving away from providing AP credit altogether. Q - What is required to be eligible for the AP courses and what is a recommended number of AP to take. A - There is no set recommended number of AP courses to take. The right amount of AP courses for each individual student is the amount of courses he/she can take and successfully manage and succeed in, while still maintaining a sense of balance in the rest of his/her life.
Q - My son will be in HS soon, I would like to know the current available Honors Class for 9th grader and the prerequisite. A - Honors classes available to freshman are in geometry and English. Prerequisites are made available to eighth graders at Huntington Middle School and are available on links provided by each department. Q - Is it true some colleges don t take into account the AP classes? A - This is a twofold question. All colleges will see AP/Honors courses listed on the transcript and colleges do take rigor of curriculum into account when making decisions. However, many colleges do recalculate the GPA to their own specifications and may not award an extra point for Honors or AP courses. Many colleges are moving away from awarding Advanced Placement credit. Every university has its own policy on AP scores. Q- How many AP max can junior students take? A - This is an individual decision and it depends on each student s qualifications, readiness, and interest. Balance is key. It is best to do well in a few versus mediocre in many Honors and AP courses. Honors/AP courses in English, Math, Science, Social Studies, World Language (Spanish), Computer Science, and Visual & Performing Arts are available for juniors. Q - What are the pros and cons of taking AP, Honors and what are the considerations to deciding whether to take? A- Pros to consider : Honors/AP course offerings are varied, appealing to varied interests. Honors/AP Courses provide a taste of college-level work and subject matter. AP Test scores of 4 or 5 MAY earn college credit, dependent on the college to which a student matriculates. Honors/AP courses earn an extra GPA point. Cons to consider : Honors/AP courses can be taxing and time-consuming for some students, especially if taking more than recommended or if a student has a challenging schedule overall. Students must take an Advanced Placement exam in order to potentially earn college credit. Some colleges don t accept AP scores for credit. Q - How to decide which AP Honors to take? How many AP Honors do you need? A - Decision should be made by each individual student based on readiness, motivation and interest. Balance is key. What else are they doing? Sports, music, arts, theater,
volunteer work, clubs, work, family responsibilities, having fun, and sleeping (basic human needs). All need to be taken into consideration. A student does not NEED any Honors or AP classes for graduation or college admission. Q - Why is it necessary to take AP Classes? How many should you take? A - It is not necessary to take Honors/AP courses. Students who have the motivation and interest to challenge themselves and meet the prerequisites have these courses available to them and should take the most rigorous course load in which they can succeed. This is different for every individual student - there is no specific or general number. Q - What is the difference between the two and what are the prerequisites for taking them? A - AP courses follow an AP curriculum designed by the College Board, which culminates in an end of year standardized examination (in May) which may or may not allow the student to receive college credit based on an individual college s policy. While Honors courses provide a similar level of academic rigor, their curriculum is determined by the teacher/department to supplement and enrich the standard course requirements, and no direct college credit can be received for successful completion of the course. There is no standardized test for Honors courses. An Honors course can lead to preparation for success in a future AP course. Both AP and Honors courses at SMHS provide an extra point towards the student s weighted GPA. Q - Is the goal to open these classes to everyone who wants to attend? A - There are prerequisite requirements for each Honors level and AP course offering. Students who do not meet these prerequisites should have a conversation with their counselor (as well as the teacher of a prerequisite class) before applying. There will be an Appeals Process for students not accepted into Honors/AP classes. Q - My SMHS student is in honors classes. I think parents would find it helpful to have an AP or Honors teacher there to discuss the differences between "regular" and honor or AP in terms of course pacing, homework, grading, expectations, etc. This would have been very helpful to me and my student who is very busy with extracurriculars and a full class load. Please have one of the college counselors (either Ms. Franco or Mrs. Beckler discuss why a student may take an AP class? Do all colleges encourage it? I think many students enroll in honors and AP unnecessarily. They become overwhelmed and GPA suffers. Thank you.
A - AP teachers and counselors presented information regarding this question and many others at the presentation. Colleges encourage students to take the most rigorous high school coursework in which they can succeed (A s or B s). Students who meet prerequisites should take Honors/AP classes in subject areas in which they have great interest in learning, and should carefully consider their load of classes along with their extracurricular schedule each year. Balance is crucial for academic success adequate sleep and mental health. Q - How to join in the Math Honors? A - Prerequisites are listed in the course description guide that can be found on the school website under the Counseling tab. This information will also be covered in the counseling meetings when courses are selected for the new year. Q - How to get into AP courses? How have students done on the AP exams in each subject taught A - Students who meet those prerequisites and perform well in AP classes typically do very well on the AP exams. Prerequisites are listed in the course description guide which can be found on the school website under the Counseling tab. AP exam data is available on the SMHS School Profile on the school website. Q - How to decrease the variance between different teachers class materials and grading in the same subject? A - Even within subject areas there will be some variance in what is required from each teacher, but the scope and sequence of the course is the same. AP Teachers teach the College Board curriculum in order to prepare students to perform well on the AP exam. Q - If the placement test scores are lowered to 85 many more students will be eligible for AP/Honors classes obviously increasing class size and work for our teachers. How will SMHS deal with the extra students? Roughly 6 years ago this was tried and was reversed when reality hit. A - SMHS will do its best to keep class size low, and with the increase of AP/Honors course sections there should be fewer regular courses offered. Q - What is the max class size for honors and AP classes compared to regular course? A - There is not a hard cap on class size for AP/Honors or regular courses, but SMHS does its best to keep class size low. Currently in the English Department, class size averages for all courses is under 30.
Q - Will there be clear communication to 8th grade parents regarding placement testing (when and where) for honors math and English? A - SMHS English Department Chairs met with the English Department of HMS this month (February, 2018) and worked out a uniform procedure for placement in 9th grade Honors English for the 18-19 school year. Huntington Middle School eighth graders will receive information regarding placement for both Honors Geometry and Honors English prior to the end of the school year. Q - Why is there an inconsistent number of Honors English classes from grade 9 to grade 10 when the student body is unchanged if the benchmarks are consistent? Wouldn t there be the same number of Kids who can handle a 9th grade honors English class roughly the same number as those who can handle a 10th grade English class? Will the rubrics for the writing benchmarks be shared with the students to provide feedback? It still sounds like the English process hasn t changed at all - it s still a murky benchmarks assessment that is subjective. Is English the only class that uses a separate benchmarks assessment to determine placement or do all the subjects use benchmark assessments as well? Can you explain the rationale behind that response?. A - The number of Honors English classes has consistently grown over the last 3 years from 9th grade to 10th grade. It has gone from three classes in the 9th grade to four classes in the 10th grade, demonstrating that in high school you don t have to start in honors to become part of the Honors program. To address subjectivity of benchmark assessment, there are two English teachers who evaluate each writing benchmark. For other subjects, the process for placement is being reviewed for each discipline. Q - At what point in the school year do you learn if your child may qualify to be in an honors course the following year? A - All students will know if they have been placed in an Honors or AP course before the school year is over. All students will know in May. Q - Will there be a cap on the number of students allowed to enroll? Will additional classes be added to accommodate students? Will the teachers be properly trained to teach the additional classes if they did not teach it before? There is a lot of variation in the quality of teachers and instruction across classes that are labeled the same in the course catalog. Parents who know the system often have been able to request to not have specific teachers while others who don t know any better are placed in those undesired teachers classes. Will this happen with the AP/H placement as well?. What training are teachers provided to be able to teach the higher level courses when they never did so previously? Are
there some courses in which your only choice is AP/H or not to take it at all? What if my child wants to learn something but isn t prepared to do it at the rigorous AP/H pace? Then what choice does he have? A - For students who apply for and are accepted into Honors and AP courses, they will be taught by teachers who are trained to teach that specific curriculum. AP teachers attend summer workshops for specific training in the AP course they will teach. Because SMHS is a small high school, often there is only one AP teacher. If students do not feel prepared or do not want to take Honors or AP courses, they remain in regular level courses. Class space will be available to accommodate students who are accepted into Honors and AP courses. Q - When is the earliest time to take AP and are there summer AP courses? A - There are not any AP courses offered in summer school. The earliest a student may take an AP course on campus is 10th grade, while some ninth graders choose to enroll in one of the two approved online AP courses. Q - How many can/are recommended for which years? Ok to take the class and not the exam? How are students selected for class entry? A - There is no required number of AP classes required for graduation or college admission. Each student should strive to take the most rigorous schedule of classes in which they can succeed, based on their unique strengths and extracurricular commitments. This question is best answered during a one on one meeting with the counselor, because it is based on the academic interest and strength of the student. Students who take AP courses are not required to take the AP exam. Course prerequisites are available on links provided by each department. Q - ARE THE SLOTS LIMITED ON WHAT FACTORS? OR ARE YOU ABLE TO ACCOMMODATE ALL STUDENTS, AS LONG AS THEY QUALIFY BASED ON THE ACCEPTANCE CRITERIA, LIKE GRADES, ETC? A - Students who qualify for Honors and AP courses will be accommodated. Q - I want to ensure that next year s AP computer science does not conflict with the final period, when students have sports. We also want to enroll our son in several AP classes. A - AP courses are typically not offered 6th period so they do not conflict with the large number of SMHS students who take part in athletics. Students have the opportunity to discuss course requests in their annual counseling meetings.
Q - If my daughter would like to take AP American History (for example) but did not take other AP history classes, is she able to do this? She is in honors English right now. Thank you. A - SMHS offers Honors United States History, and the prerequisites for this course do not require that a student has taken any other AP history courses. Students are accepted based on the grades they earned in World History and 9th and 10th grade English. Q - What are the benefits of taking an honors class vs. AP class? A - AP classes will provide students the challenge of college level rigor and the possibility of earning college credit (based on AP Test results and individual college policies) and Honors courses are enriched, supplemented high school curriculum that serve to prepare students for college level rigor. Students in Honors level courses are not specifically preparing to take an AP Test. Both Honors and AP courses allow a student to earn an honors point towards their GPA. Q - Do AP classes strengthen a student s application to a UC school? Does a student get credit for the AP class? A - AP courses provide students with a weighted GPA and demonstrate to a UC school that the student attempted the most rigorous academic courses available to them in high school in which they could succeed. Students do not receive college credit for taking an AP course, but they do receive high school credits towards graduation requirements. Every university has its own policy on accepting AP Test scores for credit. Q - My understanding is that a student needs to take regular Biology before taking AP Biology, and regular Chemistry before AP Chemistry. Therefore this seems to make it impossible to have achieved AP Biology, AP Chemistry, and Honors Physics during four years of High School. Many STEM based universities should like to see these three courses (and (AP tests) in their strongest applicants. Are we doing our students a disservice by denying this opportunity to those that are strong science students? A - For a select group of students who have done very well in Science, there is an opportunity to take Chemistry and AP Biology concurrently in the sophomore year. If a student is interested in this opportunity, they need to make this request with their counselor during their individual ninth grade meeting. College admissions representatives understand that students are in high school for four years and have many requirements to meet - they do not expect students to take every Honors/AP course offered at a high school.
Q - Could the school offer more AP courses for Sophomore and Junior year students? Could the school offer more required courses (such as Physics or Chemistry) in summer so students can have the option to take a science subject in summer? A - Over the last two years SMHS has increased the number of AP courses offered by adding AP Computer Science and AP Music Theory. Science courses are not offered in the summer as it is too difficult to complete all of the required laboratory exercises in six weeks, much less cover all of the material required so students have the knowledge to complete those labs in such a short amount of time. In order to fully comprehend the course curriculums and to meet prerequisites for AP science courses, all SMHS lab science courses are offered during the school year. Q - When can we obtain the AP Bio application and what are the requirements to take the class? Do you need a teacher recommendation? How many classes are offered? A - The Science Department is expected to make applications for Honors and AP courses available online in late March. Students will be able to select their first and second choice for science classes. Prerequisites for each course will be detailed on the application. Announcements will be made in science classes and in the school bulletin when the application becomes available. Q - Once the 4-Year Plan is created in the freshman year, can it be changed? A - The 4-Year Plan is created in the ninth grade meeting, and reviewed every year with the student, with changes made as needed/requested. Parents are invited to attend individual counselor meetings in both the freshman and junior years. Students may also request changes to their schedule in the first two weeks of each semester.