Breslau/ Stanley Park Elementary Schools Pupil Accommodation Review Minutes of Accommodation Review Committee Meeting # 9 September 22nd, 2010 6:00 pm The ninth meeting of the Breslau/Stanley Park Accommodation Review Committee (ARC) was held at Stanley Park P.S. on September 22nd, 2010. Committee Members Present: Carolyn Griffiths, Principal of Crestview P.S., Pauline Shiry, Principal of Mackenzie King P.S., Rob MacQueen, Principal of Stanley Park P.S., Jodi Albrecht, Vice Principal of Stanley Park P.S., Libby Martz, Vice Principal of Lackner Woods P.S., Crysta Fernandez, parent Stanley Park P.S., Sean Mahoney, parent Mackenzie King P.S., Janice Scherer, parent Franklin P.S., Doug Hudson, parent Breslau P.S., Troy Starr, parent Smithson P.S., Tania Hunter, parent Crestview P.S., Lesley Kraehling, parent Crestview P.S. Laurie Tremble, parent Lackner Woods P.S., Nancy Allan Catton, parent Breslau P.S., Anessa Selcage, parent Franklin P.S., Tracy Jasmins, parent Mackenzie King P.S., Kathy Waybrant, Community Rep., Mary Hingley, recording secretary, Nathan Hercanuck, Senior Planner, Lauren Manske, Senior Planner and Chris Smith, Manager of Planning for the Waterloo Region District School Board. Regrets: Gregg Bereznick, Area Superintendent, William Grobe, Principal of Breslau P.S., Carolyn Graham, Principal of Smithson P.S., Ron Dallan, Facility Services, John Scarfone, Township of Woolwich, Brian Bateman, City of Kitchener, Jane Pritchard, Principal of Franklin P.S., Mark Richardson, parent Stanley Park P.S., T. Ritchie, parent Lackner Woods P.S. 1. Welcome Chris Smith, Manager of Planning welcomed members of the ARC back after the summer break and opened the meeting at 6:05 p.m. A special welcome was extended to Carolyn Graham who is new to our Board and the new Principal at Smithson P.S. Carolyn was unable to attend tonight s meeting due to a Curriculum evening scheduled at the school and has sent her regrets. Thanks went out to Troy Starr, parent rep from Smithson P.S. for attending tonight s ARC meeting to ensure his school community was represented. Mr. Smith noted that Edie Paul, parent rep from Smithson P.S. has stepped down from the ARC effective today. Smithson P.S. will be seeking another parent rep to take over for Edie. The ARC was advised that the handouts this evening included a copy of Board Policy 3002 Elementary School Size and Configuration, effective June 2010. Mr. Hercanuck noted that this new policy will provide current and future ARC s with guidelines to work with going forward. One of the things we will do this evening is to review where we were at with the scenarios and look at a couple of variations you asked us to work out, as well as introduce a new combined Breslau/Stanley Park and Grand River South/Sunnyside scenario.
2 2. ARC Meeting # 8 Draft Minutes Approval The minutes from ARC # 8 dated June 9, 2010 had been approved by the ARC via email and posted to the website in late June 2010. o Mover: Tracy Jasmins o Seconded: Mark Richardson 3. Revised Draft Review Objectives Mr. Hercanuck noted that at the June 9 th ARC meeting the Draft Review Objectives were revised and approved by the ARC. The revised objectives can be viewed on the Board s website under ARC # 8 June 9, 2010, using the following link: http://www.wrdsb.ca/planning/accommodation-reviews/breslau-stanley-park-elementaryschools-accommodation-review Tonight s ARC presentation can be viewed on the link above as well. Mr. Hercanuck noted that the ARC will soon need to remove the Draft designation from the Review Objectives (perhaps at the next meeting) and make them the final version. The ARC agreed, and had no further suggestions/comments on the Draft Review Objectives. 4. School Information Profiles Mr. Hercanuck advised the ARC that the School Information Profiles are complete and have been posted on the Board s website under the Breslau/Stanley Park Accommodation Review webpage. He also noted that these profiles will play an important role further on in the process. For example, looking at Section 2 Value to the Board and the Facility Condition Index Report (FCI). The FCI is a percentage ratio of the estimated repair and upkeep costs over Ministry replacement value. (i.e. if the FCI is 100% the school would cost as much to repair as it would to build new). The higher the FCI percentage means the greater number of components have reached or are reaching their useful life at that facility. The school renewal cost will be revised for Stanley Park P.S. due to the roof structure repair required. Mr. Hercanuck added that if the ARC wishes, we can have Ron Dallan, our Facility Services representative on the committee speak to the FCI numbers in more detail. 5. Scenarios Review and New Mr. Hercanuck led the group through a review of the scenarios. He included variations on some scenarios that were requested at the last meeting, and introduced 2 new scenarios; including a
3 combined scenario with the Grand River South/Sunnyside Accommodation Review. He also noted that as a result of the feedback received at Public Meeting # 2 and ARC consensus, Scenario 6 had been dropped. Mr. Hercanuck advised that the enrolment projection time lines for each scenario have been extended; we will look at the numbers beginning in 2012, then 2016 and 2021. It was felt that no changes or construction would likely take place before 2012. A chart detailing the opportunities/does well and issues/not so well for all of the scenarios is part of tonight s presentation and can be viewed at the following link: http://www.wrdsb.ca/planning/accommodation-reviews/breslau-stanley-park-elementaryschools-accommodation-review Scenario 1 (review) Area E moves from Breslau P.S. to Mackenzie King P.S. for JK-6 and to Stanley Park for grades 7 and 8 Area C moves from Mackenzie King P.S. to Smithson P.S. for JK-6 Areas P and T move from Stanley Park P.S. to Sunnyside P.S. for the senior 7/8 program, eliminating the split feed from Lackner Woods and Franklin schools C Mackenzie King P.S. numbers are high and over the built capacity of 199. C Crestview P.S. numbers are healthy, while Stanley Park P.S. numbers fluctuate with the loss of Areas P and T to Sunnyside P.S., but do gain with the Area E 7/8 s coming from Breslau P.S. Scenario 2 (review) Area E moves from Breslau P.S. to Mackenzie King P.S. (which becomes a JK-8) Area C moves from Mackenzie King P.S. to Smithson P.S. (JK-6) Smithson P.S. (JK-6) Areas B, C and G feed to Mackenzie King P.S. for grades 7/8 Stanley Park P.S. closes Crestview becomes JK-8, receives senior French Immersion and Special Education from Stanley Park P.S. and Franklin P.S. Areas P and T move from Stanley Park P.S. to Sunnyside P.S. for grades 7/8 Mr. Hercanuck noted that Stanley Park P.S. is in need of significant roof structure repair and this could play a role in our decision making going forward. Mr. MacQueen gave a brief outline of the roof repair so far and the future plans: This June a section of ceiling collapsed in a classroom. It was discovered that rapidex panels (a type of concrete) was used for 10 classrooms in all. In total, 9 classrooms have been temporarily reinforced, and the tenth has been checked. There is a tender out to install I beams to further shore up the roof in these areas before the snow falls to ensure safety for school occupancy. An assessment will be done then of the entire school and a report prepared for the Board detailing costs of a permanent structural repair.
4 C Area E students move from a JK-8 model (Breslau P.S.) to a JK-8 model (renovated Mackenzie King P.S.) in this scenario. Scenario 5 (review) Area E1 moves from Breslau P.S. to Crestview P.S. (JK-6) Smithson P.S. and Mackenzie King P.S. are closed, and those areas attend a new Rosemount school (JK-6) Areas P and T move from Stanley Park P.S. to Sunnyside P.S. to eliminate the split feed from Franklin and Lackner Woods schools. C Feedback from a recent Breslau P.S. school council meeting indicated that splitting Area E (Area E1 to Crestview P.S., Area E2 stays at Breslau P.S.) is not popular with the parents in that neighbourhood. Would prefer to either all stay or all go as one group. Would be positive if they moved to a like program, i.e. JK-8 to a JK-8 (as in Scenario 2). Mr. Smith clarified that in the chart for this scenario, minimal disruption was listed under the does well column for the scenario. He explained that even though this scenario proposes the closure of 2 schools and there indeed would be disruption for those school communities what is meant here is that while the new school is being built on the Rosemount site, Mackenzie King and Smithson would still be fully operational. Scenario 1 (Area E grandparenting option 1) (new) Area E moves from Breslau P.S. to Mackenzie King P.S. for JK-6 and to Stanley Park for grades 7 and 8 (Area E is grandparented out of Breslau P.S. starting in 2011 with the JK class) Area C moves from Mackenzie King P.S. to Smithson P.S. for JK-6 Areas P and T move from Stanley Park P.S. to Sunnyside P.S. for the senior 7/8 program, eliminating the split feed from Lackner Woods and Franklin schools Mr. Hercanuck noted that at the last meeting, a request was made to modify Scenario 1 to include a grandparenting option to those students in Area E. This would mean any new students in Area E starting school would be directed to the new school, while those currently enrolled at Breslau P.S. would have the option to finish out at Breslau P.S. For example, in 2011 the JK s would be directed to Mackenzie King P.S. in this scenario while the SK s remain at Breslau P.S. A choice could be given to parents to move a year before the boundary change is implemented as part of a phased program. This has worked well in previous boundary changes. The grandparenting provision would have a definitive end date and could not be extended to siblings. Q Would a choice be given to move early? R That could be looked at as stated, but once the decision was made to move, they could not switch back.
5 C The scenario does leave Breslau P.S. with stronger 7/8 numbers. The school will likely need an addition, and may be a challenge to work around the extra students. It has been done however. Scenario 1 (Area E grandparenting option 2) (new) Area E moves from Breslau P.S. to Mackenzie King P.S. for JK-6 and to Stanley Park for grades 7 and 8 (Area E is grandparented out of Breslau P.S. starting in 2011 with the grade 4 class) Area C moves from Mackenzie King P.S. to Smithson P.S. for JK-6 Areas P and T move from Stanley Park P.S. to Sunnyside P.S. for the senior 7/8 program, eliminating the split feed from Lackner Woods and Franklin schools C Breslau P.S. 7/8 numbers stay fairly strong, and Mackenzie King does not see such a drop in 2012. Smithson and Crestview numbers are steady. Scenario 7 (new) Area E moves from Breslau P.S. to Mackenzie King P.S. (JK-6), and Stanley Park P.S. (7/8) Area C moves from Mackenzie King P.S. to Smithson P.S. (JK-6) Areas P and T move from Stanley Park P.S. to Sunnyside P.S. (7/8), eliminating the split feeds to the senior program for Lackner Woods and Franklin public schools Breslau P.S. becomes JK-6, Areas F, M, I and K move to Stanley Park P.S. for 7/8 C Enrolment is more in line with the built capacity at Breslau P.S. C Stanley Park P.S. is matched to capacity, maybe a couple of portables required. French Immersion and Special Education (i.e. the Hearing Program) do put pressure on classroom needs. Q Could 7/8 be added back to Breslau P.S. down the road? R Possibly, the enrolment pressure at Breslau P.S. currently is in the younger grades, so as those students move through, the 7/8 program would be stronger and more viable. Q Is a change like that beyond our scope and timelines with this process? R We would have to leave that open ended, it depends on where the enrolment is at each grade level. We don t yet know what the new housing developments will yield. Mr. Smith noted that taking the 7/8 program away from Breslau P.S. moves us away from our JK-8 model. On the plus side, we would have good space to accommodate the JK-6 students right now. However, Breslau is one of the few greenfield growth areas with lots of development still to come. The community could possibly support another JK-6 school in the future feeding to a combined 7/8 program, so moving Breslau P.S. to a JK-6 might not be popular and not very long-term. Q What would a 61 student 7/8 program (i.e. in Scenario 1) look like? R You would not get the number of specialized teachers with a program of that size, and it might be difficult to offer the same clubs and extra curriculars other 7/8 programs have. We could have someone that currently runs a small school organization come and speak to the ARC
6 to give us an idea of the challenges and opportunities. For example, the administration from schools like Conestogo, Floradale, Linwood or St. Jacobs. Planning will look into that. C Personally speaking, I would not want my child to suffer in a small 7/8 program with limited options. C Having someone come and talk to us would be valuable information to take back to the Breslau school community and the new families moving into the area believing they will attend a JK-8 school. Q In looking at the percent capacity in all of the scenarios, is 80 90% capacity our goal, so that there are no portables? R That column is a general guide; we will always have a need for portables, as enrolment typically fluctuates over time. When we display a 182% capacity, it gives us an idea of the size of any addition/renovation that may be required. Q Human nature wants to see 100%. R We do try to get as close as possible, and look at what pieces can be adjusted to get there; however, the boundaries need to be logical. C Smithson P.S. for example with the Special Education/Hearing Services in the school shows 90% capacity, but is really about 120%. R Computer labs are loaded as a classroom by the Ministry, so at a match of enrolment of 100% capacity you would actually end up with 1 portable. Q Regarding the roof assessment/cost for Stanley Park P.S., we will need to know the impact of that before we go forward. R Temporary measures have been done now to make the school safe, and these measures would likely be good for up to 3 years. Via a technical RFP, the WRDSB is looking at engineering consultants to review and recommend the best long-term repair. It is the roof structure that is involved which is significant. It will be an important factor when we get to the decisions around the scenarios. If we decide to choose an option that keeps Stanley Park P.S. open, that tells the Board we should go ahead with any permanent repair plans. The ARC s recommendations enable the Board to make informed decisions. Q When do we expect the ARC recommendation to go to the Board? R Our goal is early in the New Year and we would have the full estimate for the roof repairs factored in by then. The scenario that is chosen needs to make sense for a lot or reasons, and programming is probably the number one reason. The roof repair situation should not cloud the issue. Q I disagree, the roof repair is a big issue to parents/tax payers, and sounds like it could be very expensive. My feeling is that we will need to give it some weight in our decision making. R We will do that once it has been costed out. We cannot ignore it of course; one of our objectives is financial responsibility. The cost will be factored into our decision. We will ultimately need to do what is best for the students in the long-term, leading us back to programming being a very important goal. Q What about the cost for the other additions/renovations? R Once we narrow down to the favoured scenario(s), we will work with Facility Services to cost each piece out, i.e. new builds, renovations and additions. We will look at transportation impacts and costs there as well.
7 C All schools have work done over the summer (capital projects that have been planned). We will need to look at that. R That will be part of Facility Services job to work the numbers for us; there are maintenance and accessibility costs as well. Roof replacements do happen all the time; the difference at Stanley Park P.S. is that we are looking at the structure of the roof. Q Can we see that reflected in a presentation? The temporary fix as mentioned could last up to 3 years and that could give us time to start work on Mackenzie King and Crestview schools. Q Can we look at a grandparenting option applied to Scenario 2? That would address the small 7/8 program. R We will bring a modified Scenario 2 to the next meeting with a grandparenting option for grades 4 8. Mr. Hercanuck advised that newly created Scenario 8 explores a joint option with the Grand River South/Sunnyside ARC (effectively combining Scenario 2 from this ARC with Scenario 5 from the other ARC). Scenario 8 (new) New JK-8 accommodation constructed in the Morrison Road area. The new school receives Area Y and Area Z2 from Sheppard P.S. and Area AB from Franklin P.S. Lackner Woods P.S. receives Area Z1 from Sheppard P.S. Howard Robertson P.S. receives Area X1 from Lackner Woods P.S. Franklin P.S. receives Area T from Lackner Woods P.S. and Area R from Crestview P.S. New JK-8 provides the senior 7/8 program for its own catchment as well as Howard Robertson P.S. Sunnyside P.S. continues to provide the senior 7/8 program for Wilson Avenue, Franklin, Lackner Woods and portions of Rockway and Sheppard public schools. Also receives Areas P, T and R from Stanley Park eliminating the split feeds from Franklin P.S. and Lackner Woods P.S. Ottawa Street becomes the boundary between Stanley Park and Sunnyside schools. Stanley Park P.S. closes Smithson P.S. receives Area C from Mackenzie King P.S. and feeds Mackenzie King for the 7/8 program Mackenzie King P.S. receives Area E from Breslau P.S. and becomes JK-8 Crestview P.S. becomes JK-8 keeping its own Grade 6 s for the 7/8 program Q The French Immersion (FI) program is pretty strong at Franklin P.S.; would FI be offered at the new school? R That would be based on need and parent support from that area (AB). We could lose some FI students from Franklin to the new school if it was offered. We might lose some anyway even if FI was not offered at the new school as FI students in the Chicopee area would lose transportation eligibility. Crestview P.S. becomes a JK-8, keeping its own Grade 6 s for the 7/8 program. Franklin P.S. feeds to Sunnyside P.S. for 7/8, but for FI those students would attend Crestview P.S. Q Is Ottawa Street the cutoff for the secondary school boundaries?
8 R No, the secondary boundary runs north/south while the elementary school boundaries are east/west. Q Where would the Hearing Program and the 7/8 French Immersion be moved to if Stanley Park P.S. were to close? R It would make sense for the Hearing Program to move to Mackenzie King as they become a JK-8 facility. The 7/8 French Immersion program would move from Stanley Park P.S. to Crestview P.S. Scenario 8 does propose a solution for Lackner Woods P.S.; they will need some kind of addition though. Sheppard P.S. drops to 65% capacity when they give up Areas Z1, Z2 and Y that have been temporarily bussed to them to ease pressure at Lackner Woods P.S. Planning also looked at an option that closes Rockway P.S. and moves those students to Sheppard to utilize the larger capacity facility. Mr. Hercanuck noted that there are higher development numbers for Area Z1 that have just come in and not been factored into our scenarios yet. Q What streets are included in Areas R and T? R Oldfield Road is in that area. Area T used to go to Crestview P.S. and enrolment got up to 800 students at one point and that is why and when Lackner Woods P.S. was built. Q Is Area AA bussed to Howard Robertson? Why isn t that area directed to the new school? R That area only represents about 5 students and has historically always been a part of Howard Robertson P.S. The split/line dividing Area AA from AB is Highway 7/8. The narrow finger of Area AB represents no houses, it is mostly commercial. Q Can a grandparenting option for Area E be applied to this scenario? R Yes, as well the requested Scenario 2 option. Mr. Smith noted that based on what seems to be the developing consensus for a solution for each of the ARC s, this combined scenario does a good job for this ARC, but not so well for the Grand River South/Sunnyside ARC. Q How do they feel about Scenario 8? R We just introduced this scenario to them at their meeting last week. It was the best solution we could see for the combined ARC s. This likely won t be the preferred scenario for that group, and we may end up having separate solutions for the groups. That being said, we still want to have a combined ARC meeting to gauge the feedback and share ideas. Q If the City does re-zone the Lackner Blvd/Fairway Road site, it doesn t look like many students could walk. The Chicopee area would need bussing. R Actually, lots would be walking to the new school, the Chicopee area stays at Franklin P.S. in this scenario and would continue to be bussed. C Lackner Woods P.S. is still big in this scenario as well as Howard Robertson P.S. We still need to revise the development numbers in Area Z1 which will put even more pressure on the enrolment at Lackner Woods P.S. (could add an additional 150 when the numbers are revised). Q Can we look at Scenario 8 with our Scenario 1 instead of Scenario 2, which would keep Stanley Park P.S. open? R Crestview P.S. would suffer in that case, but we can look at the numbers. Q Will the City re-zone the site at Fairway Road/Lackner Blvd.?
9 R If that scenario ends up being the front runner, we will go to the City and make a zone change application. The City s biggest issue around the site is residential density targets. However, if that is where the Board wants us to be, the City would be hard pressed to turn us down, in our opinion. 6. Roundtable Mr. Smith noted that before Public Meeting # 3 our goal is to narrow down the scenarios, perhaps to 3 or 4, so that we can have them costed out. Next meeting we can look at which ones to take forward and that do the best job when put up against the review objectives. 7. Future Meeting Dates Mr. Smith noted that Planning will work on a date for a combined ARC meeting and will communicate via email to both groups to determine what is best for the majority. (Location to be determined Dinner will be provided) Mr. Hercanuck proposed Wednesday, October 6, 2010 for the next ARC meeting. He also asked the ARC if the time (6:00 7:30 pm) and meeting location (Stanley Park P.S.) still works for everyone s schedule. o The ARC agreed to the meeting date/time and location. o Mr. MacQueen agreed to continue to host the ARC meetings at Stanley Park P.S. Mr. Smith thanked all for coming and the meeting adjourned at 7:55 p.m. Future Meeting Dates: Wednesday, October 6th @ Stanley Park P.S. from 6:00 7:30 pm Joint ARC Meeting To be determined