Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 1 of 41. Exhibit B. Deposition Designations for.

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1 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 1 of 41 Exhibit B Deposition Designations for Geraldo Interiano 1

2 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 2 of 41 11:21-12:4 21 Q. The other item I heard you mention that 22 you did to prepare for your deposition today was 23 that you skimmed some depositions? 24 A. Yes, sir. 25 Q. Can you tell me what you -- what you 1 skimmed? 2 A. I believe it was my Section 5 deposition 3 and as well as my trial testimony in Washington, 4 D.C. 16: Q. Now, did any of the documents that you 12 reviewed in preparation for this -- this deposition 13 refresh your memory about the 2011 redistricting 14 process? 15 A. Yes. 23:4-24:8 4 Q. (BY MR. SELLS) Okay. When you testified 5 at the trial in January of 2012, you were under 6 oath, correct? 7 A. That's correct. 8 Q. And do you understand what that oath 9 means? 2

3 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 3 of A. Yes, sir. 11 Q. Can you describe for me in your own words 12 what it means to be "under oath"? 13 A. That I'm required to tell the truth, the 14 whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help me 15 God. 16 Q. And did you testify truthfully at the trial? 18 A. Yes, sir. 19 Q. You were also under oath in your two 20 depositions in the case in the D.C. District Court; 21 were you not? 22 A. Yes, sir. 23 Q. And did you testify truthfully at those 24 two depositions? 25 A. Yes, sir. 1 Q. And you've had several depositions in 2 this case, Perez versus Perry; have you not? 3 A. Yes, sir. 4 Q. And you were under oath in all of those 5 depositions, correct? 6 A. Yes, sir. 7 Q. And did you testify truthfully in those 8 depositions? 3

4 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 4 of 41 26:3-6 3 Q. So you cannot claim to have learned 4 anything after the DDC trial that would illuminate 5 what happened in the 2011 redistricting process, 6 correct? 26:11 11 THE WITNESS: Not that I'm aware. 30: A. My only involvement in the congressional 16 map was helping Ryan Downton, who was the lead on 17 the congressional map, zero out the districts. 33:24-34:2 24 Q. Okay. First of all, who is 25 Representative Solomons? 1 A. Burt Solomons was the Chairman of the 2 redistricting committee. 46: Q. What do you recall about working with 4 Representative Garza's staff in crafting his 5 proposal? 6 A. I recall them bringing the map to me, 4

5 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 5 of 41 7 making sure that the benchmarks -- I believe we were 8 looking at SSVR -- that they stayed above 9 50 percent. If I recall correctly, that was one of 10 districts that was previously above 50 percent in 11 making sure that we drew a map that gave him an 12 opportunity to be reelected. But, again, they led 13 that process. 14 Q. How did you go about trying to give him 15 an opportunity to be reelected? 46:21-47:12 21 THE WITNESS: We would look at the 22 election analysis and see what the performance of 23 that district was amongst republican candidates. 24 Q. (BY MR. SELLS) What candidates? 25 A. Wide variety. 1 Q. You don't recall which ones you used? 2 A. Governor Perry, Senator McCain, 3 General Abbott, Supreme Court justices. Those were 4 all races that we looked at across all the members. 5 I do not recall specifically which races we looked 6 at for one member. 7 Q. And when you say "looked at," what do you 8 do in looking at them? What were you looking for, 9 for example? 5

6 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 6 of A. We were looking at the way that the 11 percentage that that candidate would have received 12 in that district. 47: Q. (BY MR. SELLS) Okay. So, getting more 18 specific, you mentioned looking at Rick Perry, for 19 example. 20 Tell me how you would have looked at 21 his race in constructing Representative Garza's 22 proposed district. 23 A. We would pull up his race as a statistic 24 and look at how that district -- how Governor Perry 25 would have performed in that proposed district. 55: When you drew the proposed district 3 for Representative Garza, you were aware that 4 Governor Perry was not the Hispanic-preferred 5 candidate in his race, correct? 6 A. I don't recall if at that time that 7 analysis had been run yet, so I cannot answer that 8 question one way or another. 9 Q. You became aware of that at some point in 10 the redistricting process, right? 6

7 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 7 of A. We became aware of that when the election 12 analysis was run by the attorney general's office. 66:15-67:1 15 Q. And you know that Abbott -- I guess he 16 was running for attorney general at that point was not the Hispanic candidate of choice in that 18 region, correct? 19 A. As I mentioned earlier, I don't know if 20 at that point in time I would have known that 21 information. 22 Q. You know that now, though, right? 23 A. I do know that now, yes, sir. 24 Q. And you knew that prior to final passage 25 of the plan, H283, right? 1 A. Yes, sir, that's correct. 69: Representative Pena gave me broad 3 bits of information and was in the room when 4 Representative Guillen was giving me the direction 5 of the map. For example, Representative Pena -- Let 6 me take a step back. 7 The only residential information that 8 this map -- that our software showed at the time was 7

8 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 8 of 41 9 the residences that the members claimed through the 10 process the Legislative Council set up, so I could 11 see where Representative Pena lived. I couldn't see 12 where he had grown up. 13 So, Representative Pena, for example, 14 would let me know the area where he had been raised, 15 to make sure that that was included in his district 16 as a potential group of -- of residences that would 17 support him. 18 So he would provide information like 19 that, but the direction as to how the map was drawn 20 and where the lines should be was primarily at the 21 direction of Representative Guillen. 70: Q. Can you remember any other direction that 9 Representative Pena gave you with respect to House 10 District 41? 11 A. There were areas of town that I believed 12 he felt that -- that were going to be strengths for 13 him that he wanted to see included in the district, 14 but I don't recall any other specifics, other than 15 he wanted to create a district where he, just like 16 the other 150 members, 149 members, had the 17 opportunity to be reelected. 8

9 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 9 of 41 78: Tell me what direction you got from 10 Representative Guillen. 78: A. As I mentioned, he was in my office and 21 he would give me instructions on which areas to put 22 into his district, which is adjoining to 41, as well 23 as the -- some of the other districts around there. 80:1-5 1 Q. And how did Representative Guillen tell 2 you what to include or exclude from the district? 3 A. We had a large screen set up next to the 4 computer, he would point on the screen and said, 5 "Add this portion, remove this portion." 82: Q. So you were looking for areas in which 24 General Abbott performed well, relatively speaking? 89:3-4 3 Q. Precinct is the same thing at VTD, right? 4 A. That's correct. 9

10 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 10 of 41 90: Q. Okay. Now, you mentioned 16 Representative Pena just a second ago. 17 Having seen what is marked as 18 Exhibit 1, do you have additional recollections as 19 to which specific precincts were split at 20 Representative Pena's direction? 21 A. I would -- I would say that at the 22 direction of the members and the process, precincts and can't see -- 2, which is where 24 Representative Gonzalez lives, those two precincts 25 were split in order to move her home into the other 91:1 1 district. 94:2-9 2 A. TEX_2011_ Q. And would you confirm that the next 4 three pages are consecutive in Bates numbering up to ? 6 A. Yes, sir. 7 Q. Okay. Do you recognize this ? 8 A. I would have to review it, but it appears 10

11 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 11 of 41 9 that it's an from Bonnie to me. 94:20-95:7 20 Q. Okay. And -- And just briefly speaking 21 for foundational purposes, what is this summary? 22 A. This is a summary in an that was 23 sent from Stacey to Bonnie Bruce and Ryan Downton 24 from a conversation that they had that Bonnie 25 forwarded to me. 1 Q. And it's a summary of what? 2 A. Of an election analysis for specific 3 districts. 4 Q. Okay. And, first of all, who conducted 5 the election analysis? 6 A. I am assuming that the election analysis 7 was conducted by the Attorney General's Office. 95:16-96:16 16 Q. Okay. And you received these sorts of 17 summaries periodically over the course of the 18 redistricting process? 19 A. Yes, sir. 20 Q. And you understand what the summaries 21 purport to show, right? 22 A. Yes, sir. 11

12 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 12 of Q. Can you tell me what Column D purports to 24 show? 25 A. Column D has been identified by the AG's 1 office as the Plan H100 Hispanic Choice. 2 Q. And what -- what do you understand that 3 to mean? 4 A. Am I correct? The Plan H100 was the base 5 plan? 6 Q. I believe so. 7 A. Okay. So that was the candidate of 8 choice for the Hispanic community in Plan H100 in 9 those districts. 10 Q. And it's district-specific, correct? So 11 it will tell you who the Hispanic choice was in that 12 election in District 40, right? 13 A. That's correct. 14 Q. And you understood that at the time of 15 the redistricting process, correct? 16 A. At the time that these were done, yes. 96:23-97:3 23 A. We would ask the Attorney General's 24 Office on a regular basis to run these analysis for 25 us. A dozen times, maybe. I'm not sure. 1 Q. And do you see in Column F that this 12

13 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 13 of 41 2 identifies Plan H153 "Prevailing?" 3 A. Yes, sir. 97:24-99:16 24 Q. Okay. And tell me what Columns E and F 25 show to your understanding. 1 A. To my understanding, E shows the 2 prevailing candidate in that election in that 3 district under that plan; F shows the prevailing 4 candidate in that election in that district in 5 Plan H Q. And what -- what can you learn from this 7 election analysis? 8 A. You can learn the percentage of the 9 candidate and how they performed by comparing it to 10 H100 and H Q. So look at District 41, if you will this is on and I'll just have you look at 13 the -- the -- Line 25. Do you see that? 14 A. Yes, sir. 15 Q. Tell me how you would interpret that 16 line. 17 A. That Guzman won in H100 at 52 point -- is 18 that nine percent -- and Guzman won at 57.3 percent 19 in H

14 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 14 of Q. And who was the Hispanic choice in 21 Plan H100 in that election in that district? 22 A. In that case, it would have been Bailey. 23 Q. Okay. So what that line tells you is 24 that the Hispanic choice did not win in Plan H100 or 25 in Plan H153, correct? 1 A. That's correct. 2 Q. And that's how you understood this 3 election analysis, right? 4 A. That's correct. 5 Q. Now, tell me how you understand Line A. Line 24, Uribe was the Hispanic candidate 7 of choice in H100. Uribe won, in H100, 51.9, and 8 Patterson won, in H153, Q. So that's one that changed from the 10 Hispanic choice winning in that district in 11 Plan H100, and then that -- the Hispanic choice lost 12 in that district in Plan H153, right? 13 A. That's correct. 14 Q. And that's how you understood it during 15 the redistricting process? 16 A. Yes, sir. 102: When we were looking at this specific 14

15 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 15 of 41 2 spreadsheet, we were looking at a statewide analysis 3 of how the different districts performed at a 4 statewide level. 5 They were provided to us as 6 individuals because we tried to increase the 7 performance of as many districts as we could; 8 nonetheless, it was a statewide analysis. 9 My success -- Or the success of the 10 members in drawing the districts was ultimately 11 determined by them and the district that they felt 12 they would have the best chance to be reelected. 112: Q. (BY MR. SELLS) Okay. This has now been 9 marked as Exhibit 6. Do you see that in front of 10 you? 112: Can you look through the pages and 24 tell me, generally speaking, what this is? 25 A. Just to clarify, this is -- the numbers 113: Q. Can you confirm for me that this is a 8 collection of s from your account? 15

16 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 16 of 41 9 A. This appears -- Yes, from two accounts. 10 From my Speaker's , as well as my personal :15-115:6 15 Q. (BY MR. SELLS) Okay. Mr. Interiano, 16 have you had an opportunity to look at the 17 that I asked you to look at? 18 A. Starting from Page 4 onward, yes, sir. 19 Q. And is that a single chain? 20 A. It appears like it is. 21 Q. Okay. And generally speaking, for 22 foundational purposes, would you describe the 23 subject of the chain? 24 A. This was an that I sent to 25 Clare Dyer and Sam Davenport at the Legislative 1 Council requesting information from them. 2 If I remember correctly, this was 3 data that had been asked of me, and I was trying to 4 get it for somebody else. 5 Q. And that somebody else was who? 6 A. I believe it was Eric Opiela. 115:17-116:18 17 Q. Okay. Now, this is an from your 16

17 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 17 of account at the Speaker's office, correct? 19 A. Yes, sir. 20 Q. And it's dated Monday, December 13th, , at 10:17 a.m., correct? 22 A. Yes, sir. 23 Q. And it is to your personal Gmail account, 24 correct? 25 A. That's correct. 1 Q. And the subject is: "Census Data." 2 You're forwarding census data -- You're forwarding 3 an that was titled "Census Data," correct? 4 A. That's correct. 5 Q. And there's an attachment? 6 A. That's correct. 7 Q. Okay. So what this is on the 8 chain is you forwarding some census data from your 9 Speaker's account to your personal Gmail account? 10 A. That's correct. 11 Q. Now, my first question is: If you were 12 downloading your personal Gmail account into your 13 Speaker's account, as you've just testified a moment 14 ago A. No. Let me clarify that. 16 I was not downloading it into my 17 Speaker's account. I was downloading it into my 17

18 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 18 of personal Outlook account. 117:6-119:6 6 When I came to the Speaker's office, 7 it was made clear to me that both my official and my 8 personal s would be accessible regardless of 9 the subject matter, but the preference was to handle 10 political issues on my personal rather than my 11 official account. 12 Redistricting was a very gray area 13 that I think is both inherently official and 14 political at the same time, and I tried to keep a 15 distinction between the two. 16 At the time, Eric Opiela, I don't 17 know if at this point he had already been hired by 18 the congressional to represent the republicans on 19 their delegation or not, but I considered my 20 interactions with him no different than I would have 21 any other political consultant from any other 22 entity. 23 And so I chose to handle my 24 interactions with him more so on my personal account 25 because I considered it more of a political dealing. 1 Q. So, if I understand you correctly, you 2 forwarded this to your personal Gmail account so 18

19 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 19 of 41 3 that you could then interact with Eric Opiela? 4 A. I could have interacted with Eric in my 5 official account if I felt that it -- that there was 6 official aspects about it. 7 I understood the question at the 8 time, and probably wrongfully so, to be a political 9 question. And so out of an abundance of caution, I 10 chose to have those interactions on my political on my personal s when I considered 12 them political. 13 And I think that you'll see that 14 there were other political conversation -- or 15 ended -- other conversations with political 16 individuals that were handled on my personal account 17 versus my official account. In retrospect, I don't 18 know if it would have made a difference one way or 19 another. 20 Q. Let me put it another way: You forwarded 21 this from your Speaker's account to your personal 22 account so that you can then send the data to 23 Eric Opiela? 24 A. Yes, sir. 25 Q. And did you, in fact, send this data to 1 Eric Opiela? 2 A. I believe, from the first page of that 19

20 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 20 of 41 3 exhibit, I asked him what he wanted for which 4 election, and I see in the thread between me and 5 Clare that I told her which election, so I'm 6 assuming that I would have sent that to him. 131: Q and 8. And I'll represent to you 7 that they are your testimony and -- in the Texas 8 versus United States trial. 9 The reason that there are two of them 10 is that the larger testimony is from the first day 11 of your testimony, and then the smaller one is when 12 you came back to testify again during Texas' 13 rebuttal case. 14 And I wanted to ask you whether, 15 based on your current knowledge, was your testimony 16 factually accurate? 17 A. Yes, ma'am. 18 Q. And based on your current knowledge, were 19 any facts that you stated during your testimony 20 incorrect? 21 A. Not that I'm aware of. 132: and I'd like to return a moment to some of the 20

21 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 21 of 41 6 testimony you gave earlier about some of your 7 political work before you came to the Speaker's 8 office. 9 You worked with Congressman Smith; is 10 that correct? 11 A. That's correct. 12 Q. And did you do political work or policy 13 work or something else for him? 14 A. Both. 15 Q. Okay. And when you came to the Speaker's 16 office, Speaker Straus, did you also do a 17 combination of political and policy work for him? 18 A. Eventually, yes, ma'am. 19 Q. And have you also worked on campaigns? 20 A. Yes, I worked on both Congressman Smith 21 and Speaker Straus' campaigns. 22 Q. And what was the highest position you 23 ever held on a campaign? 24 A. Campaign manager. 133:2-7 2 Q. Okay. And in your role as campaign 3 manager, did you have an opportunity to review 4 election-related data, such as voter registration 5 data or turn-out data? 21

22 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 22 of 41 6 A. Yes. At some point or another, I would 7 have reviewed that. 138: Mr. Garza did not have a chance to be reelected in 2 his district as it was configured in the 3 benchmark; is that correct? 4 A. That -- In the bench, you mean H Q. Yes. 6 A. -- that should there have been no 7 changes? 8 Q. (Attorney nods affirmatively.) 9 A. I think it would have been a tough 10 election for him. Whether he would or would not 11 have been reelected, it would have been dependant on 12 what that cycle looked like. 13 Q. But would you agree with me that he was 14 concerned he might not have a chance to be reelected 15 in the H100 version of his district in 2012? 16 A. Yes, I do believe he expressed that 17 concern. 140: Q. (BY MS. PERALES) Do you recall 17 testifying previously that, because it was a goal to 22

23 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 23 of keep his Spanish surname voter registration over percent, that you needed to have Somerset in his 20 district in order to make the political and the 21 demographic numbers work? 22 A. If I testified to that at the time, I 23 would stand by it. I don't recall the reasoning as 145:20-146:1 20 So, then, would it be fair to say 21 that you probably saw a regression analysis by the 22 AG's Office with respect to District 117 in the plan 23 that was eventually enacted? 24 A. I believe there was an analysis done of 25 the entire state, at one point or another, that 1 would have included :23-153:14 23 Q. Okay. And when you received the El Paso 24 map to drop into the statewide map, were you 25 concerned at any -- at any point about the shape of 1 the House District 78 and -- and the district 2 neighboring it? 3 A. As I mentioned, I believe in the 4 Section 2 trial, we did our best to make things look 5 pretty. 23

24 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 24 of 41 6 Sometimes members would have a wide 7 variety of reasons as to why the districts looked 8 the way that they would, whether it was they were 9 trying to follow city lines, whether it was rural or 10 urban, whether they were trying to follow major 11 intersections. 12 I remember the district was not a 13 square. But it did not raise an alarm to me that that it was something that needed to be raised. 157: You've testified previously that you 3 looked at partisan political data as you were 4 drawing maps, correct? 5 A. Yes, ma'am. 6 Q. Okay. And would you agree with me that 7 the attorney general election analysis that you were 8 provided identifies who the Hispanic candidate of 9 choice is in certain races? 10 A. Yes, ma'am. 11 Q. Okay. And do you understand that 12 estimate to be the product of a regression analysis? 13 A. That is my understanding. 14 Q. Okay. And now these Attorney General 15 reports that you received also included reaggregated 24

25 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 25 of election information; is that correct? 17 A. That's correct. 18 Q. So these reports identified both who was 19 the Hispanic candidate of choice and also on 20 reaggregated statewide returns who would prevail in 21 a particular district? 22 A. Yes, ma'am. 160:24-161:20 24 Q. (BY MS. PERALES) The court reporter has 25 handed you what has been marked Deposition Exhibit 1 Number 9. 2 Do you recognize this as an 3 from Mr. Hanna to you? 4 A. Yes, ma'am. 5 Q. Is it correct -- Would you agree that, in 6 this , Mr. Hanna is asking whether there's a 7 difference between the Attorney General's definition 8 of "performing" and the legal standard of 9 opportunity to elect? 10 A. Let me review it, if you can give me a 11 minute. 12 Could you ask your question again? 13 Q. Is it fair to say that, in this , 14 Mr. Hanna is questioning whether there's a 25

26 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 26 of difference between the AG's definition of 16 "performing" and what he refers to as the standard 17 of opportunity to elect? 18 A. I think that he is trying to define what 19 "performing" might mean to him versus the AG's 20 Office. 163: Q. (BY MS. PERALES) Okay. Mr. Interiano, 13 the court reporter has handed you what has been 14 marked Deposition Exhibit Number If you would look with me at the top 16 of the , do you see the sentence where it 17 says, "We are still concerned about the Voting 18 Rights Act?" 19 A. Yes, ma'am. 164: Q. Did Mr. Davis ever communicate to you 3 that he had concerns about certain iterations of 4 Congressional 23? 5 A. I believe that he did. 6 Q. Can you tell me what the nature of those 7 concerns where? 8 A. He was concerned regarding the variety of 26

27 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 27 of 41 9 factors that we were looking at, whether it was the 10 election performance, or the SSVR, and the different 11 numbers and benchmarks that we reviewed. 165:1-167:12 1 THE WITNESS: I don't recall 2 Mr. Davis' specific concerns as to which one of the 3 different benchmarks he had concerns with when he 4 wrote that he was concerned about the Voting Rights 5 Act. 6 Q. (BY MS. PERALES) So let me ask my 7 question this way: When Doug Davis had concerns 8 about the Voting Rights Act that he conveyed to you, 9 were they concerns that a possible version of 10 Congressional 23 might not afford Latino voters the 11 opportunity to elect their candidate of choice? 12 A. If I recall correctly, his concerns had 13 more to do with the election analysis that was 14 provided to us by the AG's Office, and the number of 15 elections when you compared one map versus another. 16 Q. Did he express a concern to you ever 17 about Congressional 23 only being able to elect the 18 Latino-preferred candidate in one out of ten 19 elections? 20 A. I'm sure he probably would have mentioned 27

28 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 28 of that. 22 Q. And did you understand that to be a 23 concern that this possible version of 24 Congressional 23 might not afford Latino voters the 25 opportunity to elect their candidate of choice? 1 MR. SWEETEN: Concerned by whom? 2 Mr. Davis? Is that the question? 3 MS. PERALES: Yes, by Mr. Davis. 4 MR. SWEETEN: Okay. You can answer. 5 THE WITNESS: I believe it could have 6 been a concern by Mr. Davis. 7 Part of the question that we went 8 back and forth on was to -- as to whether it was a 9 performing district in the first place or not. And 10 I don't believe there was ever a conclusion to 11 answer that. 12 Q. (BY MS. PERALES) True. And let's get 13 back to this question then about performing an 14 opportunity to elect. 15 I understand that you looked at 16 whether the district was performing in the 17 benchmark A. Uh-huh. 19 Q. -- and then used that to evaluate the 20 district as it was drafted later. But Mr. Hanna 28

29 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 29 of recognizes, in his earlier that I showed you, 22 a possible difference between the concept of 23 performing and the standard of opportunity to elect. 24 Did you personally ever inquire 25 whether Congressional 23 and the Enacted Plan C185 1 offered Latino voters the opportunity to elect their 2 candidate of choice? 3 MR. SWEETEN: Objection; assumes 4 facts not in evidence. Go ahead. 5 THE WITNESS: I don't recall the 6 specific conversations that David and I had on that 7 map, as I believe I've testified extensively. My 8 involvement in the congressional map was very 9 minimal. 10 I was there to really support Ryan, 11 who took the lead in drafting, and primarily had the 12 lead in those conversations. 167:18-168:15 18 Q. (BY MS. PERALES) Who is Lee Padilla? 19 A. Lee, at the time, was a staffer at the 20 NRCC. 21 Q. NRCC? 22 A. The National Republican Congressional 23 Committee. 29

30 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 30 of Q. Did Lee Padilla ever send maps to you? 25 A. I remember Lee and I having 1 conversations. I don't recall if he ever submitted 2 a map directly, mainly because I don't believe that 3 he would have had the avenue by which to send it to 4 me. 5 The only way that I could receive 6 maps in RedViewer was either through Red Appl -- I'm 7 sorry -- Red Appl -- it was either through Red Appl 8 or I guess he could have sent it to me as a 9 converted file that I could have uploaded. 10 I don't recall if he sent those 11 directly to me, or if they were sent through another 12 member, or if they were sent through 13 another consultant. I don't know who the -- who 14 produced the maps that I received and whether Lee 15 was involved in that or not. 168:19-169:12 19 Q. (BY MS. PERALES) The court reporter has 20 handed you what has been marked Deposition 21 Exhibit And I would like you to look down 23 before Bonnie Bruce says she doesn't want to think 24 about maps anymore. 30

31 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 31 of A. I wonder why. 1 Q. Look down to where you see in all 2 caps, "I THINK," and read that sentence for me 3 there. This is from Ms. Bruce. Can you read me 4 that sentence? 5 A. Yes, ma'am. "I THINK she's saying it was 6 not performing because they couldn't identify a 7 candidate of choice, but that it may have been 8 weakened because of turnout (not registration.)" 9 Q. So would it be fair to say that, here, 10 Ms. Bruce is identifying a distinction between 11 weakening a district by lowering its turnout versus 12 weakening a district by lowering its registration? 169: THE WITNESS: From my cursory review 18 of the s, it appears that this was a 19 conversation that Stacey may appear in the Attorney 20 General's Office and Bonnie had -- in her language 21 in that , it appears that she is trying to 22 show that there's a difference. But I was not a 23 part of those conversations. 171:14-172:17 14 Q. Okay. Were you aware around that time 31

32 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 32 of period that Mr. Archer was wondering whether the 16 draft of Congressional 23 at that time was 17 effective? 18 A. I was aware that there was a great deal 19 of discussion around CD 23, and that there were all 20 sorts of issues that were discussed, whether it was 21 effective or performing, or whether it was their 22 candidate of choice. There were a wide variety of 23 views that were discussed. 24 I can't speak to whether I knew at 25 the time that Jeff Archer in particular had 1 expressed those concerns. 2 Q. Were there people during these 3 discussions internally who were expressing concerns 4 that Congressional 23 was not a Latino-opportunity 5 district? 6 A. Congressional 23 was by far the hardest 7 district for us to review, so there was a great deal 8 of discussion as to how was the district created to 9 make sure that it was a fair and legal map in the 10 aggregate. 11 There were a lot of issues that I 12 don't -- not a lot -- There were some questions as 13 we mentioned that were never really answered, 14 starting with: "Was Congressional 23 a performing 32

33 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 33 of district before or not." And when we looked at the 16 map and the aggregate, we felt comfortable that it 17 was a fair and legal map. 173: So I understand the context -- 2 A. Uh-huh. 3 Q. -- that there was a quite a bit of 4 discussion and debate, but can you tell me if there 5 were specific individuals who expressed concerns 6 along the way, at some point or another, that 7 Congressional 23, as it was being drafted, might not 8 be a Latino-opportunity district? 9 A. Absolutely. I mean, throughout the 10 process, there were individuals. I mean, I 11 expressed individuals -- I expressed concern at 12 several points in some of the drafts that we were 13 receiving that I did not believe that those drafts 14 were going to be able to pass muster, and that we 15 needed to present our best foot forward and try to 16 submit as legal of a map as we possibly could to 17 solidify all the arguments that individuals are 18 going to have against the map. 175:8-176:20 33

34 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 34 of 41 8 Do you recognize Exhibit 13 as some 9 communication between you and others, 10 including Mr. Hanna and Mr. Downton? 11 A. Yes, ma'am. 12 Q. Okay. And, on June 6th, you were writing 13 an that refers to issues that are continuing 14 to be raised regarding -- and one of those is 15 Congressional District 23. Do you see that? 16 A. Yes, ma'am. 17 Q. Can you tell me what issues you were 18 referring to? 19 A. I'm assuming that, in this circumstance, 20 it was the going back and forth that we had with the 21 congressional delegation. 22 As to how those districts needed to 23 look like, there was a wide variety of proposals, 24 including a proposal, if I recall correctly, where 25 CD 20 broke the line outside of Bexar County and we 1 were trying to -- to have those discussions. 2 And I was trying to bring together 3 our legal team at Baker Botts, David Hanna, as well 4 as Ryan Downton to have that conversation and get 5 everybody into the same room. 6 The reason why I sent the initial 7 is because -- because Baker Botts was under 34

35 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 35 of 41 8 the Speaker's office, I was the only one authorized 9 at the time to be reaching out to them and asking 10 them to come to our office. 11 Q. So are you saying that this , then, 12 on Exhibit from you to Mr. Downton and 13 Mr. Hanna -- was unrelated to concerns under the 14 Voting Rights Act or the concerns -- included 15 concerns under the Voting Rights Act? 16 A. I would have said that it was inclusive, 17 it was a wide variety. We were trying to address 18 all of the issues surrounding those three districts. 19 Q. I want to talk to you for a minute or two 20 about Eric Opiela. 177: Q. Okay. And for how long exactly did you 11 and Mr. Opiela overlap at the Speaker's office? 12 A. I started in the Speaker's office, I 13 believe, October 1st, so Eric was never a part of 14 the official staff. He was on the campaign staff. 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. When I started, I was primarily on the 17 official staff, but I did some political work for 18 the Speaker. 19 I don't recall at which point he left 35

36 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 36 of the Speaker's office and joined the congressional 21 delegation, but I'm fairly certain it was before the 22 session even started. 178:1-8 1 so it would have been maybe one or two months. 2 Q. And as you undertook your -- to prepare 3 for redistricting, did you talk to Eric about 4 redistricting concepts or how redistricting was 5 done? 6 A. Yeah. We had communications about it and 7 talked about it. And during that conference, we had 8 discussions about it, as well. 179: preparation for redistricting. Did you read LULAC 2 versus Perry, the decision by the Supreme Court? 3 A. I believe that's one of the ones that 4 Legislative Council would have asked me to read at 5 the time. 6 Q. Okay. So after Eric changes jobs and 7 moves to the congressional delegation, was he 8 working for Congressman Smith formally? 9 A. I believe he was working for the entire 10 delegation. 36

37 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 37 of Q. And the tasks that he was performing for 12 the entire delegation when he worked for them, were 13 they related to redistricting? 14 A. You would have to confirm with him. The 15 impression that I had was they were. 180: Q. (BY MS. PERALES) The court reporter has 9 handed you what has been marked Deposition Exhibit 10 Number 14. And we've talked about this briefly 11 before. 12 A. Yes, ma'am. 13 Q. And I wanted to explore with you which 14 parts of this you did and didn't understand 15 at the time A. Sure. 17 Q. -- that it was sent to you. 18 I can see in the that you say, 19 "You're going to have to explain to me in laymen's 20 terms," and there's a response above where he -- he 21 does some explaining. But I'd like to focus down 22 below. 182: So what happens after November is you 37

38 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 38 of 41 6 start training more in redistricting? 7 A. Yes, ma'am. 8 Q. You read manuals, you attend conferences, 9 you have a one-on-one training on the Red Appl 10 System, correct? 11 A. Yes, ma'am. 12 Q. And, at some point, you begin to learn 13 what these terms mean, like CVAP and RV; is that 14 correct? 15 A. Yes, ma'am. 16 Q. And you become familiar with Texas 17 Legislative Council reports, showing citizen voting 18 age population and turnout against registration and 19 those sorts of things, correct? 20 A. Yes, ma'am. 183: Q. Okay. And as a result of your 5 communications with Ms. Dyer and Mr. Davenport, you 6 learned even more about the types of data that are 7 available with respect to turnout and citizen voting 8 age population, correct? 9 A. Yes, ma'am. 10 Q. And voter registration, as well, yes? 11 A. Yes, ma'am. 38

39 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 39 of Q. Okay. 13 And, in part, you're gathering data 14 to share with Mr. Opiela, is that correct, during 15 this time period of Exhibit 6 in -- in December, I 16 believe? 17 A. Yes, ma'am. I believe the specific 18 things that I requested from them was likely at the 19 request of Eric. 190:18-191:12 18 Did you conduct an analysis of 19 districts that performed for African-Americans at 20 less than 50 percent of black voting age population 21 that were not majority/minority African-American? 22 A. The districts -- I mean, you're talking 23 about congressional districts, I'm assuming? 24 Q. Any districts. 25 A. Any district. 1 Q. I'm referring to any districts. 2 A. The districts would have been included in 3 the statewide analysis that the Attorney General's 4 Office was providing to us. 5 Q. So, was there an analysis -- 6 A. They were doing statewide analysis that 7 included all 150 and 36 districts. I believe that 39

40 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 40 of 41 8 they provided an analysis that have all of them in 9 it, so that would have been included in that. 10 Q. What would have been included? 11 A. The -- Looking at the African-American 12 districts and how they performed. 192: Q. Okay. I'm sorry. That's the page right 6 above it is where it comes in. 7 Okay. Congressional Districts 9, 18, 8 and 30 from Plan C A. I'm assuming those three are the 10 districts that have elected an African-American, but 11 I don't know the numbers off the top of my head. 12 Q. Okay. And so your answer -- What I'm 13 asking is whether you, or if you're aware of anyone 14 else, conducted an analysis to determine whether a 15 particular district performed for African-Americans, 16 specifically as an opportunity district? 192:19-193:2 19 THE WITNESS: I don't believe those 20 analysis were done as the districts were being 21 drafted. I think those analysis were done once the 22 districts had been drafted, and there was a plan to 40

41 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 41 of submit to the Attorney General's Office. 24 In regards to those three districts, 25 I believe that, at the time, we believed that even 1 though the districts were below 50 percent, they 2 were still going to elect an African-American. 193: Q. Or to how did you make that 7 determination? 8 A. The fact that historically they had 9 elected the African-American candidates. 10 Q. And so is that the complete criteria for 11 those decisions? 12 A. No. I believe you could have done 13 further analysis, but, at the time, I believe that 14 we were looking at the historical analysis of those 15 districts. 16 Q. Okay. And so apart from the one 17 statewide analysis you mentioned, there was no other 18 specific analysis that you're aware of A. Not that I recall. 20 Q. -- to determine whether a district was an 21 opportunity district for African-Americans? 22 A. Not that I can recall. 41

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